0:00:00 Paula: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of TesseTalks with your host, Tesse Akpeki and me, Paula Okonneh, the co-host, where we share with you top leadership and management strategies. This is and continues to be a journey of discovery where we learn that leadership is personal and professional. And so we hope you, our listeners, will walk with us in this journey.

0:00:30 Paula: Today we’re talking about building resilience, the art of possibilities. And to do that is our guest, Laura Gates, who by the way, was our very first TesseTalks guest back in 2020. We should have a drum roll here. I will tell you a bit about Laura Gates. She’s an executive coach and facilitator supporting leaders and their teams. She works with global organizations like Google, Shell and NASA, as well as VC-backed startups in the AI tech semiconductor and space industries. She’s been named as one of the top executive coaches by Culture Compare, and her work with Teams and Conflicts has been featured in First Round Review. I could say a lot more about her, but if you need to find out more about her, you can visit her website, which is gates group consulting.com. And why not let her now come to the stage? So, welcome Laura Gates to TesseTalks.
0:01:40 Laura: Thank you so much, Paula and Tesse. It’s so great to be here. I cannot believe that it’s been that long. First of all, we were all in the throes of COVID when Tesse just started to start her podcast and inviting me on, so I’m thrilled to be here five years later. And I heard you just won some accolades for this podcast, and I’m thrilled that I’m here to celebrate with you all today.
0:02:05 Tesse: Yeah, we’re so glad to have you, Laura. Paula and I excited, and you were our first podcast guest on TesseTalks. And today, the day of recording, we’ve actually been named as Top 10 Compassionate Leadership Podcast for 2025. And I can’t say how excited I am and it’s guests like you that make this a possibility. So thank you so much.
0:02:30 Laura: Thank you. Pleased to be here.
0:02:32 Tesse: Yeah. And I’m going to kick us off, Laura, I’m sure you know, we can’t wait to hear the gem that you’re going to share with us. And what builds resiliency, what does resiliency make possible?
0:02:44 Laura: That’s a question. That’s big.
0:02:47 Tesse: That’s massive. And as I say, like a circle, anywhere you start is the right place to start.
0:02:54 Laura: Sounds good. This is a big topic today. That people are really feeling a lot of stress, burnout, and fusion chaos. There’s a lot of disruption between what’s happening globally in the world. There’s just so many things going on between the advent of AI and new technology. I am experiencing something interesting. It’s interesting you said that we met in 2020 and we’re now in 2025, and I feel like I’m hearing from people a lot more about their experiences during COVID. And I think there was a post COVID period of let’s just put that behind us and keep moving. But I think we’re starting to see all the changes that occurred from that time and what people had to endure and go through to get through it. And so there is this sense of how can I be more resilient? How can I make sure that I’m navigating things without damaging my own wellbeing, my own sense of peace, and with the people I love as well. How do I create wellbeing and resilience with those around me?
0:04:09 Tesse: So beautiful. Beautiful in the sense that I know at that time, Laura, you were one of those voices that was saying, look, we need to actually learn the lessons from COVID as is happening. We need to actually see how our nervous systems are rewired in that. I remember this very clearly. We were saying that, and now in this time we see how a lot of these things are coming through with lack of regulation in our nervous system with lack of tolerance and listening to diverse voices. We see all these things played out. We see a lot of burnout happening and so many things because we are not taking the time to regulate our systems. Paula, what are your thoughts on this?
0:04:50 Paula: Yes, I mean, the fact you’re saying that now five years later, that people are going back and talking about their experiences during COVID is interesting to me. And so as I listened to that, I started thinking about how the communities, I mean this has obviously affected communities. How are you seeing that resilience or are you seeing resilience built into the communities that are coming out to you now and saying, Hmm, 2020 was harder than we actually thought?
0:05:24 Laura: Well, I can share a couple of things. One is my own personal journey. So I was coaching someone today who works in a Silicon Valley company that I used to go to several times a week and do in-person coaching. And we were kind of laughing and saying, oh, right, coaching used to happen in person and now it’s all virtual. And we were just kind of reminiscing about commuting and then finding a conference room to sit in and like all the things that we use, finding parking, it’s not a part of my world anymore. This is my world right here in this room. And I think that’s fascinating. During COVID, I started looking on Zillow for places to find in the town that I grew up in, because I realized, again, another COVID impact was that I’m so far from my family of origin and what if something happened to someone, or what if I wanted to be more accessible to them?
0:06:24 Laura: So, I’ve actually moved from California to central New York. I’ve really slowed down my life in many ways, not in the heart of Silicon Valley and tech, and I still work with those clients, but my day-to-day living experience is very different. My ability in terms of community to be there for my parents, be there for friends, and build a community that’s very different than the one that I came from. I find that we are finding the places we need to be. We are finding the people that we need to be with and calling them around us. I’m doing more volunteer work than I’ve done in a really long time. Not so much in planting trees type of work, but more offering my coaching skills to communities in need. And that’s been really rewarding as well.
0:07:14 Paula: That’s interesting. So, out of COVID, what I’m hearing from you is that yes, it was tough, but it also made you in some ways become even more close to your family and then even more involved in people’s lives in a way that is very impactful. Because when I look back, COVID was a time where we all were indoors but in some ways separated sometimes from our families even more. And this has done, taken you from the west coast, right back home to the East Coast.
0:07:47 Laura: Yes. Where I really swore I would never come back to. And I’m delighted to be here and also, you’re right. I think those are moments of clarification. When we’re in a crisis, we were talking right before this podcast about people going through illness, and when we go through an illness, our focus gets very narrow. We get very clear on what’s important, what’s not, what is a good use of our time, what is not. So I know that we’re going through very, an overused word right now is unprecedented times. Like people are saying, I don’t want to hear that word anymore. I really say we’re in disruptive times. And if we can see, I’m someone who honestly, a little bit I’ll admit, thrives on chaos and disruption when things are just kind of status quo, run and maintain. I’m not really interested in that. I like working with people who are going through big transformational change, who are ready to make changes in their lives or their organizations. I work with teams in conflict, so I go in when things are messy and maybe not so buttoned up. I love that. And so this time we’re in, although for me, it can sometimes be stressful. I also find it incredibly invigorating. And I’m oddly hopeful about the future because I do feel that it brings us out to say, what’s important to me, what’s not? Is this worth doing? Is it not? Are these the people I want to be with? Are they not? And I think that level of clarity can be very empowering.
0:09:26 Tesse: Wow. I’m Laura, I’m just smiling. Disruption as a catalyst for transformation. Finding meaning in walking with people, walking with yourself, the inside and outer game to make sense of what we’re facing, what life is handling us, but also how we can shape life. I’m just loving it. And a question that comes to my mind. You’re an amazing coach. Paula, I’ve actually benefited from Laura’s coaching. She’s fantastic. Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic.
0:09:57 Paula: You’ve told me.
0:09:58 Tesse: And for this kind of resiliency in community with ourselves and others, what are you finding helpful to steer people towards? The choices which are helpful, not harmful, obviously won’t be harmful, but helpful for them.
0:10:14 Laura: I mean, I have one really simple exercise that I ask people to do, which is to take stock of what gives you energy and what drains your energy. And when you do that assessment, if you look at your calendar, you look at your week, I hate to say it, but like, who gives you energy and who drains your energy? You start to take stock of that and you do that assessment and you realize, you know, maybe the work that I’m doing isn’t energizing, or maybe I’ve taken on too much, or maybe I can delegate more or get more help. Or maybe I simply need to say no to these things. Or maybe I’m out of habit having lunch with someone who’s just complaining the whole time and I realize that’s not making me happy. I think that’s one thing that we have to look at is where are we doing things because we’re used to doing them, we’re comfortable with them, and this is part of our routine, and maybe there needs to be some disruption in how we even navigate our daily life.
0:11:13 Paula: I like that. I like that school of thought. In other words, you need to separate yourself from toxic environments, friends, whatever it may be that’s toxic. And that’s can be disruptive in the sense that if that was your normal routine and this is how you lived life, and suddenly like you wake up with a realization that this isn’t for me, that’s disruptive to change.
0:11:37 Laura: Exactly. Or if the habit is to make dinner and sit down in front of the television and watch the news, but the news is distressing and eating during times of stress is not helpful and maybe it’s better to sit quietly and then go for a walk, or being in tune with the physical aspects of ourselves as well. And I feel it’s similar. I’m talking very personally and I know what really helps me is getting enough sleep and not too much caffeine and not too much sugar, although I like my treats, just knowing what gives me wellbeing in my life. But also if you look at leaders and organizations, there’s a similar aspect of are there parts of our business that are not doing well? Are there parts of us the way we’re operating that is out of habit or patterns that aren’t helpful to the business anymore?
0:12:31 Laura: And just being able to have that strategic perspective. And what I find is for leaders in particular, probably the most important thing that I coach them on is making sure they can carve out space and time to think and reflect. And we’re going so fast, we’re executing so hard, we’re trying to keep up. And that ability to almost, I call it meandering time. So, taking a journal with pen and paper, taking a cup of tea, sitting in a different part of your office or your home, or stopping at a coffee shop on the way home, just getting into a different environment to have a different way of thinking. And I recommend pen and paper because I feel like our brain operates differently than, oh, I’m going to have my laptop up and come up with some ideas or types of ideas on my phone. It’s really about thinking about the business, thinking about the landscape, thinking about the people in your team, what is needed right now, what is going to help take us into the future. And we’re not used to doing that sort of business reflection in a more personal way. But when leaders that I coach do that, it’s amazing the ideas that come through, the creative thoughts that come through, the innovative thoughts that come through, just when they’re able to step back and get perspective.
0:13:59 Tesse: I did say you’re a brilliant coach and you know what you’ve just said, active feeds into that. And I think there’s something in the waters. This month I was able to make contact with one of my coaches called Nancy Kline. And she actually trained me and with others on a tool called Time to Think. It’s been going for a long time. And if you put time to think into Google, her books will come up. And I met her to say thank you for what she taught me. And saying, there’s never been a time where time to think and carve that out has been so important. And just today I met a woman called Kori Kanayama, I don’t know if you’ve heard about her, but she’s really, really big because she was an OD consultant, advisory, et cetera. And she pivoted into a new area of work, which has been so successful, which is cooking and leading in harmony with nature. So, she’s the chef now.
0:14:52 Laura: Oh my goodness,
0:14:53 Tesse: I’m looking at food, food and nature and harmony. And I was able to spend some time with her and a group of people around the work that is being done with design learning and Peter Block’s work. So to date it happened. And what you’re doing is bringing those threads together, now actually write with the pen and the paper, exercise the brain in a different way. Paula, what thoughts are coming to you?
0:15:19 Paula: Interestingly, what’s coming to me is I had a guest on my show. I have a show, Laura, and she’s an anthropologist, but she also has started doing cooking classes because she says there’s a connection, she’s a, I can’t remember her exact title, but I think a cultural anthropologist and I’ll have to look that up. But she says, and there’s so much you can learn about leadership when you are in the kitchen. When you using a recipe, what goes in first, what goes in second, that’s all part of leadership. And then they all blend together and you get such a great outcome. So it was interesting Tesse you about what you said, but going back to Laura’s, what you mentioned earlier about a lot of leaders, a lot of your clients encourage them to have meandering times. I think that was your word. Time to recharge.
0:16:19 Paula: Yeah, I love that word. Meandering times. How have you been able to help them, help them also reframe some setbacks that they may have and look at it as part of their growth journey.
0:16:31 Paula: I love that.
0:16:37 Laura: I love that. One of the things I love is Joseph Campbell’s work around the Hero’s Journey. And it’s fascinating that you just said cultural anthropologists, because one of my teachers and mentors who sadly has passed on was Angelus Arian, and she did extensive work with Joseph Campbell. And so it’s this idea that if you look at the Wizard of Oz or Star Wars or The Matrix, or what’s the one where they go get the stone, the Emerald Stone, I forget what that one’s called. But any one of these films is a hero’s journey. You have to go into the dark woods and face the dragons and slay the dragons, and then you come out, and I feel like my clients who have been able to see failure, if you will, as part of that hero’s journey or heroine’s journey, as opposed to the way we look at failure in our society and our culture as shameful.
0:17:36 Laura: And I can tell you probably the greatest learnings that I’ve had, and I’m sure around this circle, we could all say the same thing, that some of our setbacks and failures have been our greatest teachers. And if we can overcome that feeling the bar has to keep going up, success, success, success, but that’s not how life is. It’s like we, we grow, we learn, we succeed, and then either it’s time for something new or we get bored or something fails because our ego got as big as our success. And then we have to have a few humbling lessons, and then we go back. And I think we need to see life as more of that cyclical journey and less of like this straight line up in terms of what we call success and what we call failure.
0:18:31 Paula: I agree 100%. Tesse, you remember we had a guest on who told us her acronym for fail was first attempt in learning.
0:18:37 Tesse: She did. Yeah.
0:18:40 Paula: I love that.
0:18:43 Tesse: It’s Lisa, Lisa, and it’s remained there. And even today with Corey’s workshop, we were actually talking about redefining success. Because in the light of life’s lessons, in the light of how what we are dealt with, what others are dealing with in light of disruption, what people would call success in so much in that light, and Laura, when you speak the way you do, I’m just reminded the importance of revisiting our life for now and the past and shaping a future with that kind of insight of wisdom of really that question you ask. What’s important for now, you know?
0:19:23 Laura: Right. Being able to help my parents right now feel successful, being able to cook, speaking of cooking, right? Like I’m really trying to go to my local farmer’s market, buy locally grown foods, cook and prepare healthy meals for myself. When I lived in California, I ate out a lot and there’s amazing restaurants. And a little bit of this is just needing to feed myself really good, healthy food, but I can feel that I’m honoring my body and I’m taking care of myself. And I’m, I really do feel that aspect of feeding the community and talking to the local farmers at the market, and our market here is incredibly diverse. There’s people from around the globe. So you see people dressed in all different kind of native clothing, you hear different languages, you see what they pick. I’m always watching like, what is that herb? Those women are buying so many of that. I don’t know. I don’t even know what that is.
0:20:20Laura: I’ll talk to the farmer and say, what are all those women buying? And it’s some sort of Middle Eastern dish that they make with it. So there’s something that feels to me that it really important and valuable, as you were saying, this aspect of building our communities, connecting with people, connecting with ourselves, connecting with our loved ones. And I don’t see that dissimilar in the business world at all. Even though some of the clients I work with are entirely remote virtual companies. It’s amazing to see how they build community, even if they very rarely meet in person. I feel like, again, I tend to see the positives where people see negative. And so when people talk about, oh, we’re all in technology and we’re disconnected, and, but I just chatted with someone recently who, I probably haven’t talked to her in several years, but I see her online, I see her posting in social media. I know exactly what she’s doing with her life.

0:21:16 Laura: And when she said, oh, I’m in this part of the country right now. And I said, oh, didn’t, you recently buy some property there? And she’s like, yes, I did. So, it feels seamless to me. Or people are saying, oh, AI is going to ruin our children, and what are they going to do for a living? And I’ve had a young man visiting with me, a friend’s son, and we were in the kitchen cooking and he’s using chat GPT to get the recipes. And then I asked him a question, he is like, let’s ask chat GPT that that question and it’s like, these kids are going to be fine, they’re already integrating it. It’s us that I’m worried about.
0:21:56Paula: And you’re so right, because interesting you talk about chat, GPT and the younger generation because Then my son who uses it a lot of the time, and he was like, mom I was saying something, I was complaining about how sluggish my computer was. And he looked at me, he said, mom, I’ve been reading up that in 2000, was it was it 2000 or, or 1998 before you could your computer even booted up? It took like five minutes and before you got an email, you hear it cranking up and they say, you’ve got mail, so what are you complaining about? And I was like, perspective. And so he and I were even talk as you talk about jobs, I mean, you’re looking back at the history of industrialization and saying, that before the telephone came into being, we had telephone operators and then somebody made the automatic switchboards. So you no longer did that. But those people found jobs still. And so they’ll always be, we as human beings, we adaptive, we’ll adapt. So even using AI jobs are coming up around that. So yeah.

0:23:19 Laura: Yeah. Feeding right back to the theme of resilient, right? We find ways, we find opportunities, we make opportunities. It’s incredible really.

0:23:11Tesse: You’re incredible. You’re really incredible because you reframe, you reclaim, and it’s just beautiful to listen to the way that you are embracing difference and embracing challenges and turning them round to something that becomes a strength.
0:23:25 Laura: Thank you.
0:23:28 Paula: Talking about strength, another question I have for you. You’re talking about resilience and how you moved all the way back home, not all the way you move from the West Coast back to New York. What keeps you strong? I mean, what keeps you going? What keeps you alive? Well, I know what keeps you alive? I think, I know what keeps you alive, but now that you have relocated, what’s the secret?
0:23:50 Laura: I will confess, I’m a bit of a workaholic. By that, what I mean is I am constantly thinking about my work. I am constantly refining what I do and thinking about what do people need right now. So as Tesse knows, because she’s going to be one of the first people on my podcast that’s coming out in the fall. I’m looking at how do I take what has been a behind the scenes one-on-one conversation or small executive leadership group conversation and bring that out into the world more. And that actually produces a lot of anxiety for me, because those behind the scenes private conversations for me are very comfortable. And there’s this way that we are now, I feel like those of us who have something to offer are being propelled to be more visible. And I see Tesse nodding her head here.
0:24:54 Laura: You know that there is a need. And if what I can offer meets that need, then I have to get over my own fears of being seen, of being heard. Or is it good enough? Or am I prepared enough? And I was talking to my assistant yesterday, because we were looking at the accounting, and she said, Laura, you spend an insane amount of money on training. I mean, you said, I’ll let Laura speak for herself because I have so many certifications. It’s ridiculous. But that comes from a place of, oh, I need to know more and I need to study more, and I need to get better at some point. We just have to be willing to put ourselves out there to the point of failure, right? Like, why am I feeling like I need to know more and have more certifications before I speak publicly about my work?
0:25:36 Laura: Or speak more about my knowledge and my experience that that’s not helping me If I’m afraid of failing in that, I have to be willing to take that risk, start putting myself out there and see how people respond. So I feel like what propels me to answer your question is this need to be of service in particular, in a time like now. That helps me say something I didn’t say earlier, which is when we think about how to show up in these times, I think we sometimes have pictures of, oh, I should do this, or I should do that. Whereas I feel like, I’m not going to work in a soup kitchen, but I’m going to give free coaching, or I’ll help some local startups to be successful. What is my unique contribution that someone else could not provide? And I’m not saying I wouldn’t help in a soup kitchen, but I have a certain skill that can help people. So how can I bring my gifts and talents to be of service to what the world is needing right now? Whether that is a paying client or a volunteer thing, or helping a friend’s son.
0:26:47 Tesse: Wow. How can I be of service? How can I use my unique talents? Wow oh wow. Laura, before we close out, what word of encouragement do you have for our listeners? Somebody’s listening in here and they’re thinking for me, what can I take away from Laura?
0:27:04 Laura: You know, every single person, when I say to them, what do you feel is your purpose? What do you feel you have to contribute? If anything were possible, what would you do? And right away they say, oh, I don’t know. I don’t know. And then I keep asking, and I said, just like whisper it into my ear and they’ll say, I really want to be a chef. And it’s like, okay, how do we make that happen for you? There’s a million ways to cook for other people. And just like you’re the person you interviewed who went from a leadership position to the kitchen. You know? And I think what I see is that it’s not that people don’t know in many cases what they want to do. It’s that they’re afraid of admitting it. They’re afraid it’s not possible. They’re afraid, they’re not qualified. And my encouragement is to follow that path. Follow what gives you energy that will take you where you need to go more than anything else.
0:27:58 Paula: I absolutely love that answer. Yes. Follow your dreams. Live your dreams. Don’t leave them, live them,
0:28:09 Laura: Even if they’re tiny, tiny, you just need a little glimpse.
0:28:12 Paula: Yes, yes, yes. So true. And so as we wrap up here, I want to say thank you, Laura, and thank you to all of those of you who listen in every time we release a podcast. And we ask that if you haven’t done so yet, please encourage your friends, your family, your leaders to head over to Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, or anywhere else that you listen to podcasts. And please subscribe to TesseTalks. And we were always appreciative of raving reviews that we get from you, our listeners. In addition, if you have any questions or topics that you want us to cover that’s related to leadership or governance, we ask that you drop us a note. Remember, these notes can be personal or professional. And last but not least, if you’d like to be a guest on the show, just as Laura Gates has been, please head over to our website, which is Tesseakpeki.com/Tessetalks to apply. Oh my gosh, this has been so good. Laura,
0:29:19 Laura: Thank you so much. Lovely to be here.
0:29:38 Tesse: Laura, you’re such a gem. You’re such a gem. Thank you so much.
0:29:38 Laura: Thank you.