00:00:00 Paula: Hi everyone and welcome to part two of our special episode of “TesseTalks” meets “TesseReads” in which our extra special guest Erin Randall joins us in discussing “The Super Helper Syndrome Survival Guide For Compassionate People” written by Jess Baker and Rod Vinson. We’ll continue where we left off in part one. But seems like that’s what the studies show. What page is that? Page 79. And then she made, I mean, she talked about the critical FM. I love that. Where, you know, it’s like a radio and the FM is, you know, the radio and the critical is us criticizing ourselves, you know, like, how could you be so silly? You know, why do you think that you know it all?
00:00:55 Erin: Yeah, that channel plays a lot in my head, by the way.
00:00:59 Paula: Yep, it 00:01:00 goes on and on and on. And you’ve got to come to the point where, as she said, stop labeling yourself. Don’t give yourself all these labels.
00:01:08 Erin: Well, yeah, she references Hamlet right about then. I think they’re where a thing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so.
00:01:17 Paula: Yes.
00:01:18 Erin: Yes. All kinds of good things in Hamlet, aren’t there?
00:01:22 Paula: Yes. Yeah.
00:01:23 Erin: No, but those are words to take to heart. A thing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so. I have to always sit with that for a little bit because it makes me, it reminds me to go look at something from lots of different perspectives. So I find the wisdom of that moment or the perception of what needs to be there. But can we return to that question, Paula? How do we ensure that everyone has a chance to help? Does that resonate with you like it did me?
00:01:54 Paula: I got to think about that one. Because, and I’ll tell you why, because I don’t think everyone, 00:02:00 I don’t think everyone is helpful.
00:02:03 Erin: True.
00:02:03 Paula: I don’t think, there’s some people whom. This is what I think, there’s some people who feel entitled. And people who feel entitled sometimes it’s through no fault of theirs, they just have been born privileged, or they’re in a family where they’ve got either the baby or some form, it has something to do with, you know, child. The people that in my life that I have seen who are entitled do not seem to have a sense of ever wanting to help. They want to take.
00:02:33 Erin: Is that because they have never experienced what it is like to need help, or they have never seen what it might look like to be helpful or of service to someone else?
00:02:45 Paula: Sometimes I think, in my experience, it’s been both.
00:02:48 Erin: Yeah.
00:02:48 Paula: They haven’t had that opportunity to actually give the help. And because they haven’t had that experience, that opportunity. 00:03:00
00:03:00 Erin: Because help can be very humbling. You know, help, when you need help it is hard to admit sometimes that, I need help right here. And I must confess whenever I see someone or something that needs help, my first response is to go help. But is that the best thing in that moment?
00:03:21 Paula: You know, that’s one of the things I will address, and I ‘can’t remember, I know I took note of it, of this woman. And I loved, you know, when she exemplified it through stories, I mean, that always piqued my interest.
00:03:32 Erin: Yeah.
00:03:32 Paula: And the instance she talked about the nurse who jumped in, who, you know, stays over time. And I don’t know why I’m returning to the medical profession, maybe because I’m from a family of a lot of medical people.
00:03:44 Erin: Because it’s, yeah.
00:03:45 Paula: And, she had worked so hard that day, taking on extra tasks, and then had to go pick up her child and flagged down who she thought was driving a taxi and it turned out not to be. And the person said, I’m not a taxi driver. And she said, that doesn’t 00:04:00 matter, still take me to my child’s school. And after she got out of that taxi, she realized, wow, that was dangerous.
00:04:09 Erin: I’m laughing at the moment, because I remember being in Mongolia and Russia where any vehicle was literally a taxi. If you flagged it down, it could be a taxi. So I’m like, Oh yeah. And now here in the US where everything is either Uber or Lyft or a taxi, you know, how’s that changing? But do we need to look at how can we encourage helpers to remain healthy? How can we encourage or challenge or help others to remain healthy?
00:04:38 Paula: Yeah. I think, you know, one of the things is accepting yourself, seeing that, okay this is, accepting that this is a problem. This is indeed a problem. And once, you know, understanding that because it’s a problem, you need help as opposed to denying it.
00:04:54 Erin: Yeah. I can do this. I’m not able to do this. 00:05:00 Oh, but I need you to do this. No, again, please respect my no. I can do this. I’m not able to do this.
00:05:07 Paula: Absolutely.
00:05:09 Tesse: Yeah. I think that I’ve been listening to the beautiful conversation and the help and healthy helping is tied into accountability as well. And this is where accountability alliances come in as well. That the same way that we would have people who we mentor. In the same way that we are mentors and we are coaches and so on. In order to be healthy from a place that is less healthy, we need people to help us and guide us along the way. You know, we form the intention that we want to be healthier and we say how we want to be healthier as an objective, as a goal. And along the way, yes, we help ourselves, but we can’t do it on our own. We need people to walk alongside us to help us be healthier. So it’s a kind of situation 00:06:00 where we have our role to play, others have their role to play and community has its role to play. And I quite like, Erin, what you were saying about situations where the community of helpers helping each other. And in the last chapter where she talks about the compassionate helper that comes into play, because she now talks about ways that in community, we heal, and in healing together and witnessing what we witness and in healing together, we actually in the network, strengthen ourselves in healthy, helping. And so the reflector of that, you know, is part of the strengthening. And I love how in the book she divides it into different elements. So there’s the kind of the healthy diet walking movement pieces.
00:06:56 Erin: Yeah.
00:06:57 Tesse: There’s the self help pieces 00:07:00 where we self help. There is the kind of friend you know, kind of friend versus helper dynamic. And I just love the way that she breaks it into different steps. Some would be applicable, some won’t, and some will together it makes sense. But she has this wonderful way of tying it into different places where it’s possible for us to do it. Individually, collectively and in community.
00:07:28 Erin: So I hear her building, you know, systems are greater than goals. So if your goal is to be a healthy helper, what are the systems that you need to build in order to make that possible?
00:07:41 Tesse: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And this is why I love this book more than most others, because a lot of DIY books are what they are, DIY, right? And this is like, yeah, we noticed this, but let’s see the system that will support the health.
00:07:58 Erin: Yeah. What is the system that 00:08:00 will support the health? Yeah, kind of peeling back that layer there. I love that you love this book so much. I’m always fascinated by what books draw people, you know, which, you know, they keep coming back to again and again. I get the feeling that this is a book that you will read more than once.
00:08:18 Tesse: Yes.
00:08:19 Erin: And I hope you tell me at some point in the future, If, whenever you read this book in the future, if it is different for you in that reading than it was this time.
00:08:29 Paula: Yeah.
00:08:30 Erin: By then,
00:08:31 Tesse: Paula.
00:08:33 Paula: No, I’m agreeing with Erin. I’m like, yeah, it would be good, because I know how. you know, how you are. You gobble up books. You thrive on books. Yeah. And to, you know, having read it for this and then, you know, go back, muse over it and come back and read it. It’ll be interesting to get a different perspective, because I plan on doing that, you know.
00:08:53 Erin: Yeah.
00:08:54 Paula: Because there’s some things that, I mean, I just underlined, like, for example, what page was it? Anyway, I think it 00:09:00 was 96, where she talked about one of the characteristics of a good person is thinking, you know, well, I’m a super helper because I’m a good person. But then has she outlined a good has different meanings to different people. Like, you know, for example, a policeman who’s doing his job. I think he’s a good person. And of course he is. And then someone on the other aisle who may be protesting over a cause, I think they’re a good person, and then the two of them meet. So what happens? You know, the policeman is trying to, you know, expressing your views about what you think is good, and he’s there, or she’s there, doing their job. They’re both good people. But on a different side, it’s still good.
00:09:45 Erin: And it’s finding the alignment or the space for them to be like, okay, what do you recognize that both have in common? Well, both are trying to make a better world.
00:09:55 Paula: Yes.
00:09:56 Erin: Where they’re trying to benefit society and make something new 00:10:00 possible. And hopefully if they can both see the wisdom and the compassion and the help that both are trying to give. They can have that conversation, you know, they can have that conversation. I do love though, that you will, come back to this book, later point, Tesse.
00:10:15 Tesse: I love that you suggested it, because one of the things I liked in this book was the very end on page 227, where Jess talks about a postscript., and kind of like write a postcard and then give it to someone and tell the person when you want them to send it back to you. And, it’s another accountability system.
00:10:35 Erin: Oh, yeah. I’ve done this before. I did this once as part of, Strozzi’s somatic coaching training. And you would write this postcard and it would be sent to you and you didn’t know when it would come. It would just come at some point. You kind of had to trust that it would come to help you when you most needed it. You didn’t know when that would be, but it would appear on that day.
00:10:59 Tesse: And that to 00:11:00 trust in someone else. you know, that they will remember to post it to you and you see it. But it’s such a powerful thing, you know, it’s such a powerful, and I love the end of it when she said with love from you. So this postcard is sent back to you from love.
00:11:17 Erin: Yeah. This, yeah. Helping you help yourself.
00:11:20 Tesse: Yes. Yeah.
00:11:22 Erin: And I can feel my hands on my heart’s, you know, as we say that out loud.
00:11:26 Paula: Yeah. It’s almost like, you know, journaling on a postcard, I guess. Because, you know, when you journal and you sometimes go back and you look at what you journal, whether it’s a year ago or three months ago. It’s amazing many of the time to see, you know, how things probably, your perspective has changed on things, or things have changed within that period of time. And you can look back at your past self and see where your present self is. So this one is like for your future self.
00:11:55 Erin: So it’s kind of journaling as, you know, we call it self help, but that’s also you building that 00:12:00 system so that you remain a healthy helper.
00:12:03 Paula: Yes.
00:12:04 Tesse: Yeah, but it’s sort of beautiful, because it reminds me very much of Magnesium and I’m being part of that community. Erin, I know that reading this book this time round had become richer because of my experience with Magnesium. Yeah. And I’ve seen how in the Magnesium community we’ve grown together. I mean, it’s just been so powerful to see people so vulnerable, and in that vulnerability actually experiencing what healthy helping can look like, you know, so, yeah.
00:12:41 Paula: And so for those listening to this, I mean, it would be helpful if you could explain what Magnesium is, and that you and Tesse.
00:12:49 Erin: Yeah. Let me give just a quick, so Magnesium is something that came out of 2020 and it was a program I put together and I modify it a bit each 00:13:00 year. But it is around, you know, what is it that you want to work on? What are the systems that you want to build in order to achieve certain things? But it is also around community and accountability and wanting to build what comes next. So I am deep in the throes of putting together Magnesium 2025. My year starts early. So that will hopefully start coming online by early autumn, because I’ll need to figure out a few things there. But I love that that has been of service to you. I mean, that is a way that I do try to help more at a more visceral level, but also to elevate what they’re trying to do too.
00:13:44 Tesse: Just shows that we can be in silos. And you know, the fact that “Survival Guide for Compassionate People” and reading it came for me with being part of the Magnesium community, I saw more possibilities with that lens 00:14:00 on than I would have seen without Magnesium, because it brought to life. I mean, super smart people being helping, helping with systems and agility. And to me, there was, there’s a lot of thing about being holistic in that. So being in the head, being in the heart, being with the hands, all the things that Jess and Rod allude to. And also in that being with my dear friend, Paula in that system of health and healthy helping. It shows that people who really intend to be healthy in helping can actually enhance that intention with that holistic approach to it.
00:14:42 Erin: The intention of healthy helping, how does that amplify and how do we really raise the impact of that? I’m going to sit with that as I think later tonight, I will.
00:14:53 Paula: So what would we, I mean, on the whole, if we had to say to the authors, Jess 00:15:00 Baker and Rod Vincent, what would we say to them that we’ve gotten from this book? Tesse?
00:15:04 Tesse: Well, I would actually say I’ve gotten oxygen from this book. That’s what I would say. And it has left with a lot of questions, and I want to and need to explore to see the answers to discover. But what it has given me, it’s given me an academic framing as well and to explore, and hopefully as a result of reading this book, it’s going to put me in a better health place and healthy place. So I would say to them, you’ve written a really important book. Thank you.
00:15:40 Paula: I love that. What about you, Erin?
00:15:43 Erin: I am going back to that question of what kind of help is needed here. And because it is a deeply reflective question, you know, because I can take that inner, but I can also take it outer. But because it’s going to make 00:16:00 me think about whatever is happening and what is of service. And I think will increase the quality of help that I’m able to deliver, but also help me to listen more to the people or the system as a whole of what’s needed. And just that moment of, you know, what kind of help is needed here? Rather than because my guide is always like, how can I help? What kind of help is needed here? How about you, Paula?
00:16:28 Paula: Hmm. So for me, I mean, because I could see me and I could see a lot of my loved ones in this book. And I’ve had a lot of changes and people I know I’ve had a lot of changes. Coming from an immigrant family, change is part of life almost. So, on page 87, as you talked about, I mean, there’s something that jumped out to me out there, it was accepting change and knowing that there are three phases. There’s an ending to something, and there’s then a transitioning, 00:17:00 and then the third phase is the new, you know, there’s a newness. And learning to celebrate the change, I mean, the ending of anything in your life so that you can move on. And so that even if it means like changing your behavior, celebrating the ending of that, you know, compulsive or whatever other type of behavior so that you can enjoy the new one.
00:17:24 Tesse: Wow. That is amazing, Paula.
00:17:27 Erin: Thank you, Paula. That is just so profound. Wow. Yeah.
00:17:32 Paula: I Enjoyed the book and I enjoyed.
00:17:33 Erin: Excellent book choice Tesse. Well done. That was a nice one.
00:17:36 Paula: Yeah, I did enjoy this book and I enjoyed your.
00:17:40 Erin: Our conversation.
00:17:41 Paula: Y’all’s contribution.
00:17:42 Tesse: Yeah. You know, I always loved talking to you, Paula and Erin about books. And, I just thought I would kind of, before we do the outro, say something that I have such a love for this book that I spoke to Jess about it. And I said to Jess, I said, you 00:18:00 know, I know that you’re saying about boundaries and not saying yes to things, etc, etc. But you know, I love this book so much. Would you come on “TesseTalk” and be a guest? And I said, I quite understand having read the book that you’re going to say that you might want to say no, because you have so many things on. And she stopped, it seemed like a lifetime, but she looked at me and she said, Tesse, the answer is yes. So she’s going to, so she’s going to
00:18:27 Paula: Yay.
00:18:28 Tesse: Yeah, she’s gonna be a guest on “TesseTalk”.
00:18:30 Erin: That’s wonderful.
00:18:32 Paula: Lovely.
00:18:32 Erin: Congratulations.
00:18:33 Paula: Lovely.
00:18:34 Erin: Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s a nice,
00:18:37 Paula: Tesse that’s awesome.
00:18:38 Erin: Good job. You,
00:18:39 Tesse: I was so passionate about it, about the book. I was really, really, really passionate about it. And I think that sometimes you sense somebody’s heart and you, and she did that. And then she signed the book and she said, for Tesse, may Tony’s legacy live long.
00:18:58 Paula: Oh. Amen to 00:19:00 that.
00:19:00 Erin: Yeah.
00:19:01 Tesse: So, you know, there you have it.
00:19:03 Erin: He’s still healthy.
00:19:04 Paula: Yes. And so to our listeners, hasn’t this been amazing? We want to thank you so much for tuning in. And we ask for you to head over to “Apple Podcasts”, “YouTube Podcasts”, “Spotify”, or anywhere that you listen to podcasts and please click subscribe. If you like what you just heard, well, who wouldn’t? We ask you to write us a review. And if you’d like to be a guest on this show, you heard Tesse just say that, she, we are going to have the author of the book we just discussed be a guest on this show. So if you too would like to be a guest on this show, we ask that you head over to our website which is “tesseakpeki.com/tessetalks” to apply. This has been awesome. Thank you, Erin. Thank you, Tesse.
00:19:53 Thank you, Paula.
00:19:54 Paula: Thank you, Jess. Thank you all.
00:19:59 Tesse: Thank 00:20:00 you. Thank you ladies. I love you guys. I love you.
00:20:03 Paula: Love you too.
00:20:05 Erin: We love you too.