00:00:00 Intro with Paula: Welcome to Tesse Talks with your host, Tesse Akpeki and co-host me, Paula Okonneh, where we share with you top leadership and management strategies. TesseTalks is a journey of discovery and continues to be one. And what we learn is that leadership is personal. It’s also professional. So we hope you are guests who walk with us in this adventure.
00:00:28 Paula: Our theme for today’s conversation is leading and governing effectively and with us to do that is our fantastic guest called Morlai Kargbo. I’ll tell you a bit about him, just a snippet on him, and then when he comes on, he’ll talk a bit more about himself. Morlai Kargbo FCCA, is the Global Managing Director of Moracle Group and co-founder of the Africa Transformation Centres Foundation, also known as ATCF.
00:00:57 Paula: He’s dedicated to training young people in Africa. As an ACCA award winner, Morlai’s extensive career in accounting and advisory includes expertise in audit, accountancy, and management services for not-for-profit sectors and corporate entities. Under Morlai’s leadership, Moracle Group expanded from the UK to Ghana.
00:01:25 Paula: Well, there’s so much more I can say about him, but why don’t I do this? Let me welcome him to the show and then we can go for them. How about that, Morlai?
00:01:32 Morlai: thank you very much. It’s a pleasure. I’m so happy and grateful to be here and thank you for hosting me. So happy, to just to be talking to yourselves and then to the listeners. Plenty to talk about!
00:01:46 Tesse: I am so delighted to welcome you on the show. I’m so happy that you reached out to us. The reason being that Paula and I, we usually say at the end of each recording, if you want to be on the show and be a guest, come and whatever. I remember the first time I did that and a guest came along and reached out.
00:02:05 Tesse: I thought, Oh, no! what do I do? But now you have changed all that you have come and you have connected and that is the place to start. But guess what? As I was reading about you Morlai, I got so excited. As did Paula, because you are an award-winning, I say it again, award-winning ACCA person! Tell us a bit about your award.
00:02:34 Morlai: Thank you. That award means quite a lot for me. And every time I reflect, with that award, I become a bit, emotional. If you, I don’t know if you can see there’s a badge here, I carry with me every day. Even in my personal engagement and I wear this badge, this ACC badge. And I remember when I was given this award.
00:02:59 Morlai: And the Global President at the time said to me, you deserve this because you’ve done so much work. The resources, I don’t know how you found the resources to be able to do this and the time to be able to give this. This work that you’ve done for the profession. And he asked me a question and he says, are you a millionaire?
00:03:17 Morlai: And I said, yes, I am. And what he meant was, where did you find out all the time in the world, to be able to touch the lives of young people or the accountants. You go to schools, universities, colleges, you’re running a business. And you still find the time, to give back, and then to the profession.
00:03:38 Morlai: And I said, yes, I am actually, this world, in my world, it’s, it’s all about, non supply, not short supply. It’s abundance. If you make up your mind to do something and you really, decide this is what you’re going to do. You’re going to go all the way because there is a reason.
00:03:59 Morlai: And I explained my reason. And my reason basically was. I come from a really challenging background. My parents never went to school and they wanted me, to be educated. When I got here, it was a little bit late. But once I got here, I never stopped. Everything I did, it was, to be the best version of myself at all times. And it’s not only about myself. It’s about, the people around us, my family, the loved ones. The work that I did, even in my profession, to touch the lives of people, it’s all to do with, I just want to be there for people, to help them.
00:04:42 Morlai: So, I go to schools, I go to universities, I go to colleges in my time. And I was doing it, not realizing, well, ACCA was, kind of keeping a tab on me. I volunteered and volunteered and volunteered. And this was kind of unheard of, 00:05:00 accountants with the way we are trained, it’s all about, myself, myself, myself.
00:05:06 Here was Morlai like who was now, using this specialized knowledge. That is acquired over the years. Now, in terms of just using it and then generate income and then keep himself, it’s using that specialized knowledge and to pass it on, to young people, and particularly people who are coming from disadvantaged background.
00:05:32 Morlai: And when I say disadvantaged background, there are a lot of accountants out there who are coming from really challenging backgrounds. Disadvantaged accountants is the terminology I, created out of this. And you say, well, hold on? Is that terminology, does it exist? Disadvantaged accountant? Yes, it does.
00:05:52 Morlai: And I tell you, you know what that means people from our background, particularly. I’ve spent years studying 00:06:00 to get the ACCA qualification. And when they get the ACCA qualification, they don’t have the experience, so nobody wants to take them on. And what you find people do, ACCA qualification, driving a Uber car as a main job.
00:06:17 Morlai: ACCA qualification, as a security guard as a main job. That is unfair. And for me, that, was something that I thought, no, sorry! I cannot stand and let this, go bypass me. Whatever I can do, I will go out there and create awareness. Not only awareness, but to be able to use my resources to be able to support. So people come through the foundation that I set up in 2010. And they get free training and then able to help them to shift, their mind, to be able to do things, in a much different way. And 00:07:00 this is what ACCA saw, and then thought, well you deserve an award.
00:07:07 Tesse: That is so touching. And ACCA did a really smart thing by seeing you. They did a really, really warm and excellent thing by recognising your work and also recognizing the importance building other people up so they can be the best versions of themselves and be the best accountants that they can be and be paid for it as well. Paula, I’m going to hand over to you because I need to savor this moment of brilliance.
00:07:38 Paula: Oh, I mean, congratulations on that. And as Tesse said, to put yourself second and look out for your fellow accountants, even people who are having that dream to be accountants, but from disadvantaged backgrounds. It’s nothing more than commendable. So I commend you on that. And I also, I’m happy 00:08:00 that the ACCA saw that, recognized it, and were able to spotlight you.
00:08:05 Paula: People are aware of your work. It gives them even more hope. Give them even more, of course, with their awareness of reaching out to you and knowing that there is a way out, a way forward for them. So, thank you for doing that.
00:08:20 Morlai: Thank you.
00:08:21 Paula: So I noticed in your bio, which is so long, when I say so long, it’s so full of accolades.
00:08:27 Paula: I couldn’t read everything. But one of the things that stood out for me is that you founded Moracle Limited, which specializes in mergers, acquisitions, governance, and strategic planning. My question is, as an ACCA award winner, what would you say constitutes effective governance and leadership?
00:08:48 Morlai: Very good question.
00:08:49 Morlai: I’ve been in the business of advising clients, I would say for about 20 years. And, when I say advising clients, 00:09:00 that includes sitting in the boards, of organizations, sometimes these are, boards that I myself have created. Because there was a need, for that to happen as part of the governance.
00:09:16 Morlai: So I really understand what he means, to have, proper governance in place. But also, as an auditor, when you go to audit, what you’re doing is you are actually, identifying risks, that an organization is exposed to. And then, you try to get an understanding of why, it is that way and how, those risks, that exist are going to cause some issues for the organization. Whether it’s the bottom line or whether it’s a growing concern or whether all sorts of different things. And for me, because of that kind of exposure 00:10:00 over so many years, it’s part and parcel for me to go wherever I go.
00:10:06 Morlai: I’m always looking at the top. For every successful organization, what is the governance structure that exists? If the governance structure is weak, then the operations follow suit. But if the governance structure is strong, more likely the operation is going to follow suit, more likely.
00:10:33 Morlai: And then I’ve seen in so many businesses who are out there with a strong governance structure are successful. Challenges come and go, they’re able to weather the storm. And I’ll give you an example. An organization that, we set up 4 years ago, ATCF, African Transformation Centers. And, three of us decided, well, it’s time for us to give, you 00:11:00 know, through mindset training. We decided to set you up because we want to do this. And it’s, and for me, mindset, once I did the mindset training, that made me begin to think in a completely different way.
00:11:16 Morlai: Open mind, decision making, but just the thought process. And we thought, well hold on, well this, we can take this, to even young people. Where? In Africa, where I come from. I remember when I was there, what it was like. Now it’s the time for me to give. We set up this organization, and where we sat, and I was talking to them. They say, well, the first thing that we need to do is to make sure we’ve got this proper governance in place. What is governance, Morlai? What do you mean by governance? I started going and breaking it down. The policies that we have to have. The people. The way we think.
00:12:00 Morlai: We are the drivers of this organization. Our objectives. Why? Do we want to do this? And then if we decide we want to do this. What are the systems that we need to put in place to make sure that, our objective, is, what is that we are doing? What is the infrastructure that we need to have in place, that would be, open to scrutiny, shocks, and then, be able to be adaptable?
00:12:31 Morlai: For me, these are some of the things that constitute good governance. The people, ourselves. How do we relate? Are we able to comfortably, and confidently talk about this object that we set up ourselves that we want to do? Are we authentic about this? And what is? What is the driving force?
00:12:56 Morlai: Behind all of this, and all of these things are things that, 00:13:00 for a good governance to be in place. These things need to be in existence. For me, without a proper governance in place, I don’t think that organization exists in my books.
00:13:15 Tesse: Wow. I mean, I, I wish that I’d known this so many, many, many, many, many years ago about the relationship between the governance of the organization.
00:13:25 Tesse: And the management organization in practical terms, because often what you see. You see all those beautiful diagrams and you see all the beautiful concepts and you see something that the right-hand side of the left-hand side and the arrows very nicely there, but it can be quite messy. Can’t it?
00:13:40 Tesse: Connecting it together. I mean, it was like that, but I think, nah, you have to actually embrace people and help them to navigate the messiness of relationships. To get to grips with the regulation, accountancy regulation and legal regulation. So, I welcome another question, which is your take on internal audit, because you did 00:14:00 talk about systems.
00:14:01 Tesse: What’s your take on that?
00:14:03 Morlai: Internal audit for me, it happens all the time. We have a definition for internal audit but in my books and the way I see things. It’s different systems that exist that need to be managed, controlled, and reported upon, on a frequent basis, and where things are not happening as expected, they are investigated, and then discussed and corrective action is taken.
00:14:35 Morlai: So, it happens, for me all the time. It is not a one-off or it’s well, this is a department, that is there, looking after the other departments. Within every department, we need to be able to have this self, check, and balances. So even if it’s a department that is there.
00:14:56 Morlai: Because sometimes, because of 00:15:00 governance issues or so, you need to have a separate department confidentiality, objectivity, professionalism, these things make it happen. But if that exists within the departmental structure and the fabrics of the business, then it makes life much, much easier. So instead of the internal auditor coming down, and then finding issues, issues have already been detected, and resolved and reported on. How does that feel?
00:15:32 Tesse: It’s beautiful. It’s very, very beautiful. What, and if I’m getting excited, it’s because I am, because it’s about a weaving in isn’t it?
00:15:39 Tesse: It’s about embedding. It’s about embodiment of good practice and systems. So, I’m going to build on that by asking you your take, because you’re involved in different worlds, the for-profit world, the non-profit world. What are your views? Are they similar? Are they different in the kind of things you’re talking about?
00:15:57 Morlai: Really interesting. And I just 00:16:00 came back from a university seminar. ACCA and Moracle Foundation, that’s the Moracle Foundation, they set up in 2010, where I got this award. We have now launched a program called the ACCA UK University, program. What it means is all the young people who are studying accounting in university, probably in the second year or so, if they register and want to do ACCA exams, then ACCA send s them to us so that we can actually train them.
00:16:35 Morlai: I’m ready for work and this question was asked to me and says, what’s the difference between a private and a public, entity? For me, the answer was simple, private profit-driven. And then for a public, it is value driven. Value for money. Okay. Now look at, the systems that need to exist for these 00:17:00 businesses.
00:17:01 Morlai: And you say, well, hold on, wait, if it’s profit-making, then probably you need a different system, from a non-profit. And the answer is no, the objectives, up there, is different. But the operations, has to be the same. It has to be fit for purpose. It has to be, what you call it now? Governed by rules!
00:17:23 Morlai: For example, the financial procedure manual, in the finance function, for profit making and non for profit making, the difference is, no, I should not be there because it’s all about, protecting the finances, of the organization. So, whether you are profit-making or whether you are a non for profit.
00:17:43 Morlai: So, within the organization infrastructure itself, you’re looking for something that is fit for purpose. Good governance within the operations. And then the people training, often now the people said, because it’s 00:18:00 everything is about people. Let’s think about it. If you go into a hotel, and then you take the people out, what do you have?
00:18:07 Morlai: You just have bricks and mortar. It’s never gonna be a hotel. So, people are so integral factor. People need to be empowered. People need to be trained. People need to be, because, it’s all about people. And this word about serve, I know, accountants, and businesses or operations and the word service. We need to be able to make sure that word is embedded within the infrastructure.
00:18:38 Morlai: So everything that you peel out, it says serve. I’m here to serve. How can I serve more? How can I do more? These are all things for me that we need to be able to take into consideration. So whether it’s a profit-making, whether it’s a public entity, it’s all about service.
00:18:57 Tesse: I love your response. And the reason why I’m smiling so much 00:19:00 because it brings together seven leadership models. But it also the kind of myth that sometimes exists in nonprofits that actually making profit. I’m making a surplus is bad, whereas it is those surpluses and those things and being business-like, that will help those organizations, even though their charities, nonprofits, NGOs to remain in business. I love it. Paula, over to you.
00:19:26 Paula: Yes, I’m piggybacking on that and I love it, that there’s more of a synergy than we actually think that there is. But we live in such a fast-paced world where we want things right now. We want things to be solved right now. You talked about how well young people who are in accounting help lead them and show them, that the path to the ACCA could be done.
00:19:55 Paula: I’m wondering now, of course, being in this high tech 00:20:00 environment that we now live in, what key messages can you convey to people listening, especially young people, because I’ve seen, you seem to have a passion for that.
00:20:11 Morlai: Well, it’s a very good question. Young people. Future. Accountancy. When you put that in the equations, it’s interesting what comes out.
00:20:22 Morlai: And for me, what comes out is creativity. Young people with the right mindset. Nothing stops them. Creation is finished is what I would say. God created us. So, we are in this business of creating. And when you are blessed with, this specialized knowledge, God in his own infinite mercy is saying well, use it.
00:20:55 Morlai: You know? I remember the story of, was this Moses? 00:21:00 What’s in your hand? Use it! So, we are so blessed, with so much. And young people, the future leaders, all we got to do is just to be able to create that enabling environment for them. I’m telling you; they will thrive. They will do really fantastic work.
00:21:21 Morlai: And for me, all that comes out, I see in young people is this creativity. But they have to come from that place where their mindset, this, abundance, around them, not this competitive. When you compete, you are saying, well, hold on, there’s scarcity, but when you are in the business of creating, you can create your own economy. Hold on, because you are in this business of creating. But you’ve got to be able to come from this. From that place, that place that is, you were saying, I believe in myself, and I can do it, I know who I am. 00:22:00 And if young people can support them to get, the right mindset early, there is so much creativity that can come out from them. The power of changing this young people’s paradigms. Oh boy!
00:22:13Tesse: It’s kind of like that kind of generative leadership, isn’t it? That people talk about generative leadership and it is in young people. It’s an innovation. I was reading an anthology edited by Brene Brown and Tarana Burke.
00:22:29 Tesse: called You Are Your Best Thing! And it hasn’t been as advertised as the rest of the work around vulnerability. But it’s actually based on, on the stories of Brown and Black people. And it’s saying, you’ve got to believe you’re enough. And I love it. It came into my mind because you said, “what you believe, you’ve got to believe and trust,
00:22:50 Tesse: that with the right enabling in our case, with the, with a sound faith, you can do so much. It’s so much is possible. I 00:23:00 love it. I love your message, Morlai, I love it. I love it. Paula, I’m getting too excited for my own good. So, I hand you over.
00:23:08 Paula: I’m just not as vocal as you, but I mean, just the whole premise behind the Moracle Foundation, where you offer hands-on training to enhance the employability of accounting students and graduates. As you, I know you’re in England and the UK at the moment, but you don’t, but you’re transferring that over to Africa. That thrills me! Because many a life is changed through exposure, through awareness. You don’t know what you don’t know. But when people tell you about what you don’t know and you have grasped it and you run with it. As you say, there’s abundance. You can change things. Thank you so much for what you’re doing. But of course, all good things have to come to an end before we wrap this up. How can people find you 00:24:00 online or offline? Because you’re doing such marvellous work. We cannot keep it hidden.
00:24:06 Morlai: Thank you very much.
00:24:07 Morlai: Well, through social media. You can get us through LinkedIn. I’ve got my personal profile there and Morlai Kargbo. LinkedIn, you’ve got all three companies, that I operate. Moracle Limited, which is an accounting and auditing firm. You got Moracle Foundation, there’s a LinkedIn page there, very active.
00:24:27 Morlai: And you’ve got Moracle Consulting, where I do all the consulting work. But also, in addition to that, you got on LinkedIn, the ATC of the African Transformation Centers Foundation. So, there’s, on LinkedIn, very, very, active, but also on Facebook, we’re there, on Instagram, we’re there, and there is so many of the different, social media connections out there.
00:24:51 Morlai: But you can always call us, and if you, you can reach us on telephone, and 00:25:00 also you can actually, what’s the different bit now? You can decide to, to WhatsApp me. And I’ll tell you, I can pick up your call. I can pick up your call if you WhatsApp me, and so there, plenty way s to get us.
00:25:15 Morlai: But, through what we, are doing through the ACCA, you can go up to the ACCA website as well. And there’s so much information there about Moracle, the partnership, the ACCA Advantage Program. You can get us there, the ACCA Careers Program, yeah, we’re there! I suppose, there’s plenty, for you not to get in touch.
00:25:42 Paula: Thank you so much.
00:25:44 Morlai: Thank you.
00:25:46 Paula: And now I’ll be speaking to our amazing audience who listen in and give us such feedback and tell us what they want. We want to thank you again, our audience for tuning in. And we always invite you and others to head 00:26:00 over to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube now has podcasts, so go over to YouTube where you can listen to our podcasts.
00:26:09 Paula: And, of course, we ask you to subscribe. If you like what you just heard, and who wouldn’t? We ask that you write us a raving review. And we hear a lot of verbal reviews, but we would also appreciate written reviews so others can read it. And if you have a question or topic that you’d like us to cover related to leadership or governance on Tesse Talks, we ask that you send us a note.
00:26:34 Paula: This note can be personal as well as professional. And if you’d like to be a guest on our show, head over to our website, which is tesseakpeki.com, forward slash Tesse Talks to apply. That’s what Morlai did, and so we encourage you to do just that. Thank you again.
00:26:55 Tesse: Thank you, Morlai. You are an inspiration.
00:26:57 Tesse: You’re an inspiration. Honestly, I’m so glad 00:27:00 we met you. Take care.
00:27:05 Paula: Yes, we are.