00:00:00 Paula: Welcome to “TesseTalks” with your host, Tesse Akpeki, and co host, me, Paula Okonneh, where we share with you top leadership and management strategies. “TesseTalks” is a journey of discovery. And we are learning that leadership is personal and professional. So we hope that you, our listeners, will walk with us in this adventure. The theme today is called “Celebrating My Brother”, and with us to do this is Lucy Harrison. I’ll give you a snippet of who Lucy is, and then I’ll let her talk more about herself. But Lucy both works and volunteers with Road Peace, which is the national charity for road crash victims. Lucy’s brother Peter was killed by a speeding hit and run driver in 2014, and she was deeply affected 00:01:00 by his death and the traumatic experience that followed while navigating the criminal justice system. She has campaigned with a friend, Elaine Gordon, to get the chief coroner to issue new guidance on post mortems. And I’ll stop it there and let Lucy introduce herself more as I welcome her to the show.
00:01:23 Lucy: Oh, thank you for having me on the show. So yeah, I mean, you said it all really. I’m Lucy and I’m a bereaved sister and I work for an incredible charity through which I met the amazing and beautiful Tesse.
00:01:40 Tesse: I love the amazing and beautiful piece. But you know, Lucy, the circumstances under which I met you are not happy ones. Cause as you know, my brother too, Tony was killed in a hit and run incident. However, in coming to road peace and meeting you, that was such a gift, you know, because of the 00:02:00 amazing person you are, your empathy, your compassion, your humility, and your sheer brilliance. And one of the things that you know, I really value is how you give so much of yourself to other people. You coordinate Road Peace, West Mercia and National Sibling Support Groups, those two groups. And what I learned about you, which I didn’t know before, was that you were elected to local council in 2021. And that’s pretty quiet, you know, because I asked you to send me your bio, and I said, really? So Lucy, thank you for saying yes. And thank you for being on the show with us, Paula and I are just, just appreciating the fact that you’re here.
00:02:41 Lucy: Thank you. No, it’s really nice to be here and to talk with you. Yeah, I did keep that quiet, three years as a counsellor.
00:02:51 Tesse: You know, I’m sure you’re a very good one as well. You know, I’m going to kick this off, Paula, if I may. Lucy, you know, talk a little 00:03:00 bit about your brother. Tell us about your brother.
00:03:02 Lucy: So his name was Peter and he was 12 years older than me, so big age gap, big big brother. And I always kind of growing up heard the story of when he came to the hospital to see me when I was born and he was shaking when he held me because he was so nervous to hold his little sister and that always makes me feel so full of kind of love for him. But growing up then he was just very calm with me. And I used to think like, it must be so annoying to have a little sister who just following you everywhere. But it was never an issue for him to take me out with his friends. I can remember walking in the middle of all his friends holding their hands. And then when I got older, my kind of friends thought it was incredibly cool. I had this big brother who may be, you know, would do things they probably shouldn’t have, like take us to the pub or something. But he was so much fun and he was very 00:04:00 loud, boisterous, where I’m a little more quiet, he was a big personality. But we have a brother in between us as well. He has learning difficulties and Peter absolutely did everything for him. He was so committed to caring for him, really.
00:04:16 Tesse: Paula, I can see your eyes. Curious.
00:04:19 Paula: Yeah. Well, when you remember Peter. I mean, well, thanks for sharing that with us, and how special he was. And I know he continues to live in your heart. When you remember him, what makes you smile?
00:04:34 Lucy: Oh gosh, I mean, he was so direct and blunt at times almost to the point that it would make me want to, like, hide under the table because I would be mortified. Like, you can’t say that to somebody, what are you thinking? And then, since his death, I have found that I have started to take that from him, like, just, let’s not mess around, let’s just cut 00:05:00 to the chase. So, sometimes I look back and laugh at the things that he said and how embarrassed I could be. And he used to constantly say, just get involved. And I can remember it, you know, if we had a night out, people were having fun, maybe I was hanging back. He was like, just get involved. Just always just get involved. He just wanted to live life all the time and have fun. And sometimes I wonder if he had a sense that something may happen to him because he, often used to say that he didn’t think he would become old. And so he was so always in the moment, whereas I’m always stressed about next week or next month, or what’s happening. He was always in the moment.
00:05:44 Tesse: Wow. Wow. Always in the moment. And in the moment was fun. And you know, in the moment with his compassion and his ability to bring people together and make you all smile. You know, how do you keep his 00:06:00 memory alive? How do you, you know, David Kessler, who we both know as a grief expert, he always says that, you know, as we witness our losses, as we witness those we love in our lives, we keep them alive in our hearts. We keep them alive, you know, every day. How do you keep Peter alive?
00:06:21 Lucy: I think there’s probably a few different ways. So we’ve done things like he loved horse racing. So we did a horse race in his memory and, you know, things like that in his memory specifically. But more for me generally now is every day through my work at Road Peace, because you know, I would not be in this job or even know of this charity, had it not been for my loss of my brother. And when I went through what I went through, I realized that things had to change, and that was the best way to honor him. Because he was determined. And I know that sometimes, you know, had it been the other way around. It 00:07:00 would have driven him crazy, the injustice and the wrong that occurs. And so I feel like keep going, keep sticking at it, keep trying to help other families or, you know, when people sometimes say that you’re generous or you give support to others, I always want to correct it because it’s giving just as much support to myself by being with those families and that is how I honour my brother. And hopefully, you know, I do believe I’m here because I’m meant to be really and that he’s watching, I hope.
00:07:34 Tesse: Yeah. Paula, what comes to your mind as you listen to Lucy?
00:07:39 Paula: Oh, I can imagine what a big loss that was in every aspect. And it’s like 10 years now, and you said something that stood out for me, you said, you don’t think you’d be doing what you do now if it wasn’t for his loss, which I wonder sometimes if you ask yourself, but I would rather he was alive than, 00:08:00 you know, and me still doing this than to be doing this because of his loss. So, is that something that sometimes goes through your mind? You know, well, I know I’m doing this. I know I’m being impactful. But I could have done this with him.
00:08:15 Lucy: Yeah, obviously I would daily love him to be here. And my life probably would have gone a very different path. And, but then on the flip side, I wouldn’t know Tesse. I wouldn’t know some other incredible people that I’ve met through this loss. And we would all rather not have a loss, but at the same time now, 10 years on, I feel like, but these people mean so much to me. They have become my family that I couldn’t be without them either. But I do think, you know, I’d much rather have not lost my brother. But I do think that as a person, I grew through my loss and became kinder and got perspective, realized how 00:09:00 fragile life is. And I think that probably before that I had a selfish streak or a silly streak. So yeah, I feel like I’d much rather have him here, but through the loss of him, I’ve been able to become a, I don’t know, a better person maybe, but I’m working on that every day.
00:09:19 Tesse: Yeah, I love that kind of. People talk about being the best version of yourself. They say, I think that you’re the best version. But if you say I’m going to go and keep on being better and better, why not? But you know, your compassion and your kindness and your support and your practicality actually shines right through and just get a sense that Peter, you know, was part of that in your life as an older brother. You know, role modeling that presence, that practicality, that pragmatism. You know, amazing when I hear you talk about him, wow.
00:09:58 Paula: You know, you probably saw me say that 00:10:00 I had to ask that question because, you know, I’m just looking and listening to what you’re saying and I’m like, wow. You know, I asked myself questions like that sometimes. Where would I have been if such and such hadn’t happened? And I know it’s been a big loss and I know we count our blessings in spite of it all. As you said, you wouldn’t have met Tesse and all the other amazing people. But I know me and I would still say, but I would rather have Peter and have all of this going on at the same time, you know.
00:10:31 Lucy: A hundred percent. Yeah, I don’t know if I could have done a role like this before because I had a different priority set, a different outlook. Maybe I sweated over the small stuff more, whereas now, I’m a bit more chill on that. It’s the people that matter to me. It’s making sure there’s a connection or people feel appreciated and valued. That is so important and gosh, yeah, 00:11:00 he would have liked it, you know. He would have liked that people are hearing his name. And we used to mess about and joke about and I think to see his little sister doing something so serious would be a surprise to him. It’s an honor to be able to do it in his memory, you know, and to connect with people and like Tesse and hear about Tony and another example of an incredible brother. And to bring awareness, really, to the sibling bond and how it is when you lose a sibling because that’s not talked about as we know, Tesse.
00:11:34 Paula: Yes, it’s not. Now, I thought this was so unique, you know, the sibling, because most times, yeah, we talk about it. You know, sometimes it’s a spouse or a child, but siblings are affected, you know. And many times people don’t put that into consideration, how, you know, siblings are affected by a loss. You know, there’s a bond, but still, it’s individual. Yeah. 00:12:00
00:12:00 Lucy: I really feel that. When Peter died, or was killed, I should say, our focus switched to my brother because of his learning difficulties and his, you know, making sure he understood. Because his capacity to understand was a little bit, you know, challenging for him. And then it switched to my mom and my dad, and people would always ask, how are your parents? But not ask how are you? And I felt that my grief was less valid, less valid than Peter’s girlfriend’s grief, because they’d been living together whereas I hadn’t lived with him for, you know, years. He was an adult who’d left home. So making sure that that kind of light is shone on sibling grief is so important for me and he was, you know, my connection to my past. The person that I would say, do you remember when grandma did this? Or do you remember when we went on holiday there? But also my connection to my future and the person that I thought, you know, that would be next to me into old age, when we 00:13:00 navigated the more expected losses that you, you know, you’re facing life. And it’s very sad to be without him for that now, you know, I wonder what I might have been like if it hadn’t have happened, but I also wonder what he would have been like. Cause he would be turning 50 next year and I struggled to imagine him at 50. I really do.
00:13:20 Tesse: Yeah. I’m just listening to what Lucy’s saying, I say struggling to remember him at 50, just sort of forever young, really. Forever in your heart and so on. And you know, Lucy, you talk, one of my favorite theatre pieces and films is actually The Lion King. You know, when they say, I live in you, you live in me, in the circle of life. And when you talk about Peter, that’s what comes into my mind about the circle of life. And he part of you and you part of him and your other brother as well. You know, if Peter were listening to this, and I’m sure he is, what would you like to say to him?
00:13:59 Lucy: 00:14:00 Oh, goodness me. Well, I miss him every day. First of all, I think I would say sorry for perhaps times that I took him for granted. And I look back on the last time I actually saw him over Tongova and in a rush and he was chatting to me and you know, I was a little bit worse for wear. And I wish that I had been more present for that conversation and giving him a proper goodbye. It was a kind of one arm around the shoulder like, you know, off you go bro, because you don’t expect that that’s the last time you’re going to see someone. So, you know, I really regret that and I wish that I had gone and had more fun days with him because I did and we had great times. But there were also times that I was tied up, or busy with work, or busy with friends that actually haven’t lasted the course. And you look back and think that could have been precious time with him. So I would just tell him that I miss him. And I 00:15:00 would tell him that I learned more from him than I ever imagined.
00:15:04 Tesse: You know, I just say that there’s a four letter word that comes to my mind and that is love. LOVE. You love him and he loves you. And, you know, there’s books that I’ve read and one of them is “Don’t Live with Regrets”. You know, so I’m curious about what you do now differently in your life because of Peter, because of the love you have for your brother and what you learned in those times that you had with him in your life.
00:15:31 Lucy: I try and value my family more and I will give an example. I had a friend who had double booked herself and it meant that she was going to miss out on her mom’s birthday and she was very stressed about it. And I said to her, do not miss out on your mum’s birthday. You will not get that again. You can rearrange the other thing. And that is very much, you know, 00:16:00 I don’t want to be far from my family. I know that I haven’t got them forever. So I think that perhaps other people my age maybe don’t prioritize that. But for me, my mum, my dad, my aunties, my uncles, they are really precious. Their time is precious. My friends, if you’re my friend, you’re my friend and I am loyal to you. If you’re not going to be loyal, or you’re not going to be a true friend, then I don’t have time to mess around. And I think that’s something from Peter, really. I have become quite, almost harsh in,CI think.
00:17:08 Tesse: I can testify because I’ve witnessed your glimmer of hope in our group, in the siblings group. Seeing how you lift and inspire and encourage other people. I’ve seen how, you know, you smile with people and you cry with people. I’ve seen all those sorts of things. But, you know, this year has been an interesting year, I think from where I sit and witness you, Lucy, that you’re, in your humility, you don’t say a lot about yourself. So a little birdie tells me that you got, you’re nominated by people who’ve, you know, witnessed your work this year. What was that award for? Tell me. Tell us.
00:17:48 Lucy: So I won, received the Mansoor Chowdhury award, which is the annual Road Peace award. It’s named in memory of the son of our founder, Brigitte Chaudhry. 00:18:00 And it’s given out every year at the Road Peace AGM. And I’ve witnessed that be given out to people I consider like the greats of Road Peace. So, Brigitte, our founder, Cynthia, who was our chair for many years and did incredible work in her daughter’s memory. Pauline Fielding, who was my very, very good friend and coordinated the Liverpool group for I think over 20 years. So it was a shock to me when I got the phone call to say you are the recipient this year. I wasn’t expecting that and I feel almost fraudulent to be in the same sentence as those women to be honest. But it’s so special because it was nominated by people that I’ve worked with, so that means something to me that they’ve taken the time to write the nomination and to put me there with these amazing women and I just hope that it will inspire other people. But I look at the groups that I coordinate and I had 00:19:00 been really banging the drum because I nominated someone else for the award. So I was constantly asking who’s getting the award because I really hope it’s the person that I have nominated because they really deserve it, and when I found out it was me I thought, oh, thank you. But the person I nominated should have had it. So, yeah, it’s a beautiful thing to get. It’s very precious. It’s got a sadness to it because again, I wouldn’t have it if I hadn’t had my loss. But it is beautiful and I think it’s reflective of the West Midlands and the West Mercia and the siblings groups, because they’re a wonderful community and it’s a privilege for me to hold them together. But really, that’s all I do, just hold the space and they fill it with love. And it’s a joy.
00:19:47 Tesse: I love what you say, hold it. And that’s facilitation. That’s kind of creating a space for people to be, to do, to come together, to care. You know, and there’s another award, but this 00:20:00 award this time was the West Midlands Group. What was that award? This, also this year.
00:20:06 Lucy: It was, it’s been quite a big year actually. I’m not sure how we’re going to copy it next year. So the West Midlands group have done so much. They created a service of remembrance in Birmingham. They wrote an anthology of stories and they’ve done collaborative work with the youth justice team. We’re creating a garden and it was actually the rector of the church. where we held the remembrance service that nominated us for the King’s Award for Voluntary Service. Or at the time we were nominated, it was the Queen’s Award, because it was before the late Queen had passed. But it’s a really long process, so we had to go through, well I had to go through a couple of telephone interviews and I was sweating it, because I really wanted it for the people in the group, you know, it’s so special for them. And then we had a big group face to face interview, which was like three hours with a deputy lieutenant, 00:21:00 absolutely grilling everything we do. And then I had to do a write up, and my write up was about 13 pages, and I was thinking, oh gosh, this group is so excited they might get this award. And I was really terrified because not, you know, not everybody that is nominated gets it. But when we found out we got it, it felt to me like justice. And it was the first time in my journey that I felt this is justice, because a prison sentence, a driving ban, you know, a conviction that didn’t bring Peter back. It didn’t really feel like justice, but for the King to say, hey, this group is special and their work is important, that for me was justice and it made everything worthwhile, like all the hard work and the time. And it was a joy to watch the group members. have that acknowledgement of their loved ones.
00:21:54 Tesse: Amazing. Paula.
00:21:56 Paula: Yeah, one last thing before we round up is, what would you 00:22:00 say to siblings who have not lost a sibling? Because you know there’s sibling rivalry, there’s, you know, sibling jealousy.
00:22:09 Lucy: Oh my goodness, right?
00:22:12 Tesse: Great question.
00:22:14 Lucy: The sibling relationship is not perfect. We all argue with our siblings. They drive us crazy. We compete for the love and affection of our parents and grandparents. There is always that element, but your sibling is also the person who is like your fibre.. They are going to know you in a way that no one else can. They will know where you come from. They will understand why you are a certain way, what has influenced it. And it is something that you can’t get back. You can’t as Tesse and I know, you can’t go to the shop and buy another brother, or grow another one. And it is such a precious bond. I would just say nurture it. Your siblings should be your best friend, really. 00:23:00 There is so much you can share and your lives are so intertwined. Take the time to call them, take the time to get to know them. Take the time to remember your childhood, plan things together in your future. Don’t ever take that relationship for granted and don’t fall out over silly things, because you know there were times . Don’t waste your time, don’t waste your time with your sibling because you can’t get it back, and your siblings so important. Peter and I, we fell out over silly things and I look back and think we were wasting time and we’re here for such a short time
00:23:37 Paula: Very well said Lucy, very well said. You know, nurture it. Don’t waste it. You can’t get it back. They’re the fibre of being. The two of you, or the three of you, or how many you are, are the only ones who share that same DNA. You know, if you have the same mom and the same dad, and even if you don’t, if you just share one 00:24:00 parent, still it’s unique. Don’t waste it. Wow. And we close with that because I wanted to thank you and say you have been amazing. And I also want to talk to our audience and say thank you, our audience, for always tuning in. And we always ask for audience members to head over or encourage people to head over to “Apple podcast”, “YouTube”, “Spotify”, or anywhere else where you listen to podcasts, please click subscribe. And if anyone has loved what they heard, and who wouldn’t, I mean, we would have preferred it was under different circumstances, we ask for you to write us a raving review. And for those of you, again, if you’re listening in, we want you to know that if you have any questions or topics that you would like us to cover related to leadership or governance or, please send us a note. Remember your note can be personal as well as professional. And last but not least, if you’d like to be a guest 00:25:00 on the show, we ask that you head over to our website, which is “tesseakpeki.com/tessetalks” to apply. Lucy, this was awesome. Thank you.
00:25:12 Lucy: Thank you for having me. Thank you for giving me this space. Much, much love.
00:25:17 Tesse: Thank you, Lucy. You’re just the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you so much. Take care.